Marijuana: Legalize?

[abrannan]

Here's a report:
www.dehavilland.co.uk/webhost.asp?wci=default&wcp=NationalNewsStoryPage&ItemID=15146439&ServiceID=8&filterid=10&searchid=8

"This study shows that at young ages the use of cannabis is already strongly associated with delinquent and aggressive behaviour, even after controlling for strong confounders such as alcohol use and smoking.

"The strength of the associations increased with higher frequency of use, and significant associations were only present among those who had used cannabis recently."


There goes your "Marijuana doesn't make people aggressive like alcohol does" argument.

[The Charming Canuck]

But doesn't alcohol do the same thing in adolesece? I am not saying that they should be able to use there should be an age requirement, just like alcohol. What about a study in adults, seriously I knwo quite a few people who use it and have used it over the age of 21 and they don't have any aggression problems. Not saying that every one is the same because not everyone is the same when intoxicated. Just my thoughts on that.

[Pyrochaos]

The only thing I smoke is love.

[abrannan]

wings said:

But doesn't alcohol do the same thing in adolesece? I am not saying that they should be able to use there should be an age requirement, just like alcohol. What about a study in adults, seriously I knwo quite a few people who use it and have used it over the age of 21 and they don't have any aggression problems. Not saying that every one is the same because not everyone is the same when intoxicated. Just my thoughts on that.

Anecdotal evidence. It has no more bearing than the fact that i know a LOT of people who become very affectionate when they're drunk.

[muppetdance]

Yeah...I'm gonna have to say "legalize it". I truly feel it would solve a lot of problems associated with the black market aspects of the drug.

As for the research saying that people are more violent when high..er..well, I suppose this could be true for some people. But some people are more violent to begin with, and therefore it stands to reason that when they get High/drunk/sleepy/cranky or whatever, they're gonna commit violent crimes.

Furthermore, it's illy to say "well, some people are a little more violent when high, so we should ban it".
Obviously, the issue is the violence, not the drug. SO....(drumroll please) crack down on VIOLENCE and put the VIOLENT people in jail, not the dude who smokes a joint while watching the smurfs on cable tv.

www.mpp.org/arrests/fas61699.html

If we're going to make pot illegal because it's "bad for you" and put potheads in jail because "they do something that's bad for them" we should also make Junk food illegal, not working out (or working out too much) illegal, excess sodium illegal, being overweight illegal, having unprotected sex illegal and so on, and throw everyone in jail.

If we as a nation poured as much money into say education and training the like as we did into the drug war, one would have to worry if drugs would even be an issue.

As for the whole assisted suicide thing...er...this has nothing to do with the issue of drugs, but I'll bite anyway. Um...if someone is suffering from a terminal illness, why the hell SHOULDN'T they be able to end their suffering? It's not like we're going to force people to kill themselves (then it'd be murder, not suicide) so those brave souls that want to soldier on through the pain can do so. It is stupid that we are compassionate enough to recognize that if our dog is suffering from a terrible illness, perhaps the kindest thing to do would be to euthanize the animal, but we can't extend the same compassion toward a fellow human?

Anyway, I've ranted enough about this. Interesting topic though....

[abrannan]

muppetdance said:

Yeah...I'm gonna have to say "legalize it". I truly feel it would solve a lot of problems associated with the black market aspects of the drug.

As for the research saying that people are more violent when high..er..well, I suppose this could be true for some people. But some people are more violent to begin with, and therefore it stands to reason that when they get High/drunk/sleepy/cranky or whatever, they're gonna commit violent crimes.

Re-read the quote (and the study) I posted. The increase in aggression was present even after adjusting for other outside factors. This isn't even talking about violent crime, it's talking about delinquency and aggression. Further, it was found that the more recently they had smoked, and the more frequently they smoked, the higher the incidence of aggression. This makes a strong case for causality (smoking causes aggressive behavior) over correlation (aggressive people smoke)

Furthermore, it's illy to say "well, some people are a little more violent when high, so we should ban it".
Obviously, the issue is the violence, not the drug. SO....(drumroll please) crack down on VIOLENCE and put the VIOLENT people in jail, not the dude who smokes a joint while watching the smurfs on cable tv.

No, the point is that there are as of yet unknown consequences of widespread use of MJ. Do you know the consequences of mixed MJ and alcohol use? Smoked vs Infused? What happens when tobacco companies start cutting in x% MJ with their regular cigarrettes and cigars? How does it interact with the wide cornucopia of perscription drugs, particularly those that may be on shaky ground to begin with? Not anecdotal "well, my "friend" smokes pot, and he doesn't have any problem with his asthma inhaler" findings, but tired and true, scientifically rigorous studies? If not, are you willing to gamble with other people's lives just so you can get high?

www.mpp.org/arrests/fas61699.html

If we're going to make pot illegal because it's "bad for you" and put potheads in jail because "they do something that's bad for them" we should also make Junk food illegal, not working out (or working out too much) illegal, excess sodium illegal, being overweight illegal, having unprotected sex illegal and so on, and throw everyone in jail.

Regardless of why MJ is illegal, the vast majority of those who are in prison knew it was illegal when they used it, and they knew the possible consequences of breaking the law. We aren't reaching back to when it wasn't illegal and prosecuting folks for prior offenses. We're talking folks who know it's illegal, know the state has a three strikes rule, have been convicted twice already, and still continue to use.

If we as a nation poured as much money into say education and training the like as we did into the drug war, one would have to worry if drugs would even be an issue.

The US education budget for 2005 was 74 Billion dollars, the DEA budget was 2 billion. For every dollar we spend on the "drug war" (and not all of that goes to stop MJ, there are other drugs out there, you know) we spend 37 dollars on education.

[Grant.]

Ok, since I missed abortion , I sure won't be missing this once since morals have been brought up. I guess doing a major in Philosophy can be a good thing

Morals need to be based on something, and not on your personal opinion. Utilitarianism is a moral standpoint that says something is moral as long as it provides the best consequences for the most amount of people affected. Feminism says that something is moral as long as women are not oppressed and such. Kantian Denontology states that as long as the categorical imperative (universability and reversability of your actions and not to use someone explicitly as a means to an end) is fufilled, that something is moral. Liberatarianism states that something is morally correct if the law states it to be correct.

As you can see, there are many moral standpoints that are to be used to make an informed moral decision. Throwing around the "moral of alcohol" or the "moral of smoking pot" is an uninformed moral decision and therefore has no weight as far as an argument goes. Also WINGS, I find it quite ironic that you are arguing for the legalization of pot when you are so heavily into the "healthy hip-hop scene". Don't you think that urban drug use has gotten a little out of hand? All the rappers today are talking about drugs, sex, violence. Legalizing pot is just going to heighten this. Heighten violence (abran's article).


Ok, now let's talk about all this other MJ related love.

I said no. No under any circumstance. Here in the Maritimes, there's a huge problem with Oxycontin. People are stealing it from people who have their perscriptions for it and are taking it to achieve any sory of high. Now, the amount of people that do Oxycontin pales in comparison to the amount of people that smoke pot. These people that have perscriptions for the drug, they can't hide the fact that they take their MJ for medicinal purposes as well as someone who takes Oxycontin for relief of pain. There's a certain stench that is associated with MJ that isn't associated with Oxycontin. These people that are going to have pot, you're going to know they have it. Drug dealers are going to know you have it. I firmly believe that legalizing pot is going to heighten crime exponentially. One pothead could rob X amount of patients. The legal systems of both Canada and the US don't have the manpower to deal with all those cases. The fact that it's illegal and all over the place now is bad enough.


Also, I don't know if it's been stated already, but pot is usually used as a stepping stone to harder drugs. E, Cocaine, Crystal Meth, K, Speed and so on and so forth. Those drugs do cause physical harm and do have permanent side effects. Because pot would be so common, people would want a bigger buzz, a longer buzz, a harder buzz.








But who cares about that, as long as you GO DOWN FIGHTING.

[xstatic]

I don't really have much of an opinion on the topic. But I must say that grant has a very good argument going for him. And for me to put in my cheesy little two cents now, will be overshadowed in comparason.

The only gripe I ever had with MJ, is that I think that the punnishment for possesion is waaaay too steep. I know almost noone who HASN'T smoked pot at least once in their lives. I don't believe it's something one needs to go to jail for. Fine, charge a hefty fee. Make them do some community service I guess, though I still think those punnishments are steep. I understand the point is to create a major slap on the wrist. Jailtime for dealing is one thing. But jailtime for use can equal ruining someone's career. I don't think those consequences are just and fair in this case.

I'm a compassionate critter tho huh.

[Grant.]

xstatic said:

I don't really have much of an opinion on the topic. But I must say that grant has a very good argument going for him. And for me to put in my cheesy little two cents now, will be overshadowed in comparason.

The only gripe I ever had with MJ, is that I think that the punnishment for possesion is waaaay too steep. I know almost noone who HASN'T smoked pot at least once in their lives. I don't believe it's something one needs to go to jail for. Fine, charge a hefty fee. Make them do some community service I guess, though I still think those punnishments are steep. I understand the point is to create a major slap on the wrist. Jailtime for dealing is one thing. But jailtime for use can equal ruining someone's career. I don't think those consequences are just and fair in this case.

I'm a compassionate critter tho huh.

I've never done pot.

[xstatic]

hence why I said almost.

[Grant.]

lovelovelove

[abrannan]

grant said:

I've never done pot.

Neither have I, for the record.

[MATS]

ive never done any sort of drug or had alcohol.

[muppetdance]

so you've never had a cola or a cup of coffee or tea or anything?

That's impressive...

[xstatic]

jesus.... I've turned this into a DARE club

[havix]

I vote yes, BUT, they should DE-CRIMINALIZE it, because, if they legalize it, the government will put a HEAVY tax on marijuana, making only certified merchants able to sell it to enforce this tax, thus doing more harm than what was first intended. If they de-criminalize it, this means ANYONE can sell it, and there would be no way to tax this "product." But we all know, they will not de-criminalize marijuana so we will all have to live with the fact that when this happens (notice I said when, because it will happen soon) we will have to pay a heavy tax just like cigarrettes.

I smoked pot every day for a year straight, I loved it, and honestly, at the moment, would not mind smoking some every now and then, as long as it does not become a habit (not an addiction because I quit cold turkey with no desire to smoke again) as it was in that year in middle school.

[The Charming Canuck]

Well they coudl just let every one grow there own like it the Netherlands. I believe you can grow it but you can not sell it.

[havix]

grant said:

Also, I don't know if it's been stated already, but pot is usually used as a stepping stone to harder drugs. E, Cocaine, Crystal Meth, K, Speed and so on and so forth. Those drugs do cause physical harm and do have permanent side effects. Because pot would be so common, people would want a bigger buzz, a longer buzz, a harder buzz.

First off, that is not 100% true in all cases. You have to look at how mentally stable/strong the person who smokes is. I for one, knew about other drugs, and decided they were not for me. I had E, LSD, Cocaine, Crack, 'shrooms, pcp, and speed placed right in front of me. If what you say about aggression and pot is true, then yes, I was REALLY pissed off that these people were putting these drugs in front of me. I nearly broke into a fight with a kid for taking a line of cocaine in my presence.

So, yes, it can lead to other drugs, I am not denying you that. It is a mixture of peer pressure, and mental stability like I previously mentioned.

I just read through the whole discussion, and there are some really good points.

About aggression, I for one believe that temperment after smoking pot also depends on the mental stability of the smoker. Say Bob smokes pot, had a long day at work, likes to come home, smoke a doobee and watch TV, no harm there. Steve on the other hand, has a history of violence due to whatever reasons, family problems, social problems, anything. After he smokes, he is uncontrollable, will break into fights with almost complete strangers, and feels the need to commit criminal activities at a moments notice.

Pot can subsequently allow the person's instincts take control (arguing the bad side of smoking). It would sort of be an amplifier for the person's attitude. In the case of Steve, he could have thoughts of criminal nature while sober, and have no desire to follow through with those actions, but after smoking a little weed, his ability to control his temperment would decrease. Bob on the other hand...would just want more cheetos. (I am sorry, I am a little tired, and there were some bigger words that would make more sense, I just could not think of them at this time.)

Before you flame me, these are all just my beliefs that could be wrong, or right. I have not studied this, only talked to a few teachers familiar with the subject, and the US government. But feel free to elaborate on some of my ideas, or just shoot them down, I do not mind. (just dont call me stupid!!!) =P

[havix]

wings said:

Well they coudl just let every one grow there own like it the Netherlands. I believe you can grow it but you can not sell it.

Yes, but if it is legalized, the government will still be able to make laws that ensure ONLY the government and certified merchants have to right to disperse it. Causing them to enforce new laws they would create to prevent people from growing it in their backyard. Also making it so ONLY govt. issue marijuana is dispersed, creating a product that will be produced solely by the govt to ensure it is identical (or very similar, also making it where they know what is in it rather than joe somebody puts harmful chemicals in his batch).

[The Charming Canuck]

Hey did you know that there was a Marijuana farm in Berkley CA that wanted there plants classified as Organic. They grow it for medicinal purposes, obviously they have all the proper permits and such. I read it on yahoo news a few months ago.