Why do people play flat foot style?

[prayerwarrior35]

In case you don't know what it is, it's when the player stands with one foot across two arrows and barely moves their foot to register arrows, so instead of stepping to the beat, you are just applying pressure to the beat.

I recently had an ITG pro come over for some fun competition and he couldn't play on my pads since they had too much grip with his shoes, it's a shame when someone can 100% flatfoot playing but only 80%'s when playing normally, he typically chose the less than challenge charts throughout the day and has passed Nightmare on Hardest mode at the arcade...

So I understand foatfooting reduces energy usage and increases scores, but it undermines the game. This game is based on burning calories and the challenge comes from normal playing, the hardest stuff in ITG is supposed to be that hard, 3-4 arrows means use your hands... I guess I've been living in a cave, and I've managed everything other than Summer ~Speedy~ Expert (I will pass that soon) with stepping in the center of arrows and lifting my legs and not double stepping arrows.

It's a shame how soo many people will forgo a healthy game just to whore out a good score on a tough song. Don't think it's just a me thing, MJ also said "Sure, you can barely lift your feet off the ground and trigger the sensors. But then what does the game turn into? A CNS workout? Not exactly a healthy athletic activity either way you slice it" and he made many of the Expert charts in ITG.

Reference: mjemirzian.livejournal.com/3746.html?view=11682#t11682

So for all the people here who feel like you should be passing tougher songs by now, be grateful that you still know how to play and don't practice copying the kids in the arcades, we want to burn calories so play at your own pace. And to the flatfooters, you aren't sending a good message in a forum based on the aerobic benefit of machine dancing, your time would be better spent at ITGFreak.com.

[bingoman303]

I agree with you but I think flatfooting also works out your shin area, at least for me. I feel that after a few songs, my shin area starts to burn. But the whole reason people flatfoot is because they are too competitive. I play for fun which is why my progress is very slow and I don't push myself. I once used to cheat hands but I soon realized it just takes away from the experience. So, in short, you are right.

[BIG ATHENS]

i think that flat footing is pretty much cheating because the game was intended to be played and have some skill behind it not just stomping on all the sensors at once

[bingoman303]

I wouldn't consider it cheating but it definitely makes the game a bit easier. It still takes a lot of skill to pass the harder songs in DDR/ITG. There isn't a right way to play dance games. You could sit down on the middle of the pad and use your hands to play but doing stuff like that defeats the purpose of using DDR/ITG as exercise.

[d2xcaleb]

I find myself hitting my diagonal jumps with one foot, when I want to beat a song. If I'm in it for fun or show, I try to hit my jumps legit. Also, I play with 3x mod, is that bad? It seems that people frown upon speed mods. I can understand why, when it comes to the Cxxx mods, but Idk.

[xstatic]

I think speed mods are more than necessary when trying to pass songs that are over 10 foot difficulty. The only mod that I've seen "frowned" upon is mini and mini is totally a great way to learn a hard song so boo on them.

[Grant.]

isnt flat foot playing NOT PLAYING ON YOUR TIP TOES?

[xstatic]

That was my assumption... but then I figured I must not be an expert anymore... you now... these crazy kids and their new fan-dangled lingo. I'll bet it came from the billions of kids on ddrfreak.com....thinking they were uber clever.... on ripping on someone again for something completely worthless to complain about... but you know... I'm just an old crankypants... someone come change my depends plzkthx

[Grant.]

i say we make up our OWN lingo. Take that young'uns. Where's my RUBA535.

[prayerwarrior35]

xstatic said:

I think speed mods are more than necessary when trying to pass songs that are over 10 foot difficulty. The only mod that I've seen "frowned" upon is mini and mini is totally a great way to learn a hard song so boo on them.

I'm fine with any mods that don't deter from the physical benefits gained from Machine Dancing. But then again I live in a cave so I don't know what's socially acceptable.

[aji]

grant said:

isnt flat foot playing NOT PLAYING ON YOUR TIP TOES?

I always thought that's what people meant. I'm also having trouble understanding what flatfooting is.

At first I thought it was using your whole foot instead of the tips of your toes. Now after reading prayerwarrior35's post I think I understand it. So for example your right foot will be in charge of only pressing the top and right buttons while your left foot is only in charge of pressing the left and bottom buttons.

If that's the idea of flat footing, I think it's stupid if that's the only way you play. I think it makes the whole game play monotonous because your right and left feet are pressing the same two buttons the whole time and there's practically no movement. I understand that there are some songs where this style is necessary and unavoidable but I couldn't imagine doing that for every song.

[prayerwarrior35]

aji said:

At first I thought it was using your whole foot instead of the tips of your toes. Now after reading prayerwarrior35's post I think I understand it. So for example your right foot will be in charge of only pressing the top and right buttons while your left foot is only in charge of pressing the left and bottom buttons.

Yes that is correct, but it seems that sometimes they change and switch feet for left Up and Left and right Down and Right, somehow different parts of different songs are played easier in one of the two configurations (I really don't understand it and don't care to learn, it's just what I see).

aji said:

I understand that there are some songs where this style is necessary and unavoidable but I couldn't imagine doing that for every song.

That is false, there is no song where this style is necessary, all songs were created to be played in normal play style other than garbage keyboard stuff that people get kicks off passing flatfooted, probably some of them cannot be passed normally.

[coastalmixx]

Hello all, I just created an account here because this post really got to me.

In my opinion, playing flat footed shouldn't be considered cheating. By playing flat footed you minimize the distance your feet have to move from one place to another. Remember when people used to move their feet back to the center after they took a step (as seen in the tutorial)? When long/fast sequences of steps were coming at you, moving to the center proved to be incredibly bothersome. So what did people do?

They stopped their feet right on the arrow and waited for the next. They stopped moving to the center. Moving back to the center spent/wasted energy and made it much harder to get through songs.

Playing flat footed, I'd say, goes by the same principle. You minimize the distance between the arrows so you actually conserve energy while stepping (especially while going through difficult sequences).

I do understand, however, how you all can see this as cheating. Most of you wish to lose weight or have lost weight playing the game and see that energy conservation defeats the purpose of what you think DDR intended to do: help people lose weight.

I'm not sure how many of you have posted on DDRfreak.com or are familiar with DDR lingo. I don't mean to come out (first post, anyhow) on a high horse but, if you please, let me drop some knowledge.

There are two styles of playing DDR: Freestyle and PA.

Freestyle involves actually dancing to a song. People have created and perfected routines as well as improvised on the DDR dance floor. Back when DDR was big, there would be large competitions where people battled with their routines for their respective songs.

PA, short for Perfect Attack, is a completely different style of play. Here, you try to nail as many Perfects as possible (now, I believe Marvelous is the highest step rank). The more Perfects, the higher the grade you're likely to earn on the song. This style has gained just as much popularity as Freestyle.

Back to the topic: why do people play flat footed? In short... I'd say the answer is that they play flat-footed to get better at Perfect Attacking (PA'ing).

When playing the Nonstop or Oni Courses, you need to grab as many perfects/marvelous as possible to get the highest possible score, and by playing flat footed, it conserves your energy throughout the course. In Nonstop, they count your misses but you can't fail unless you miss a lot of steps. In Oni, you have I think 3 possible misses before you completely fail the song and the course ends.

Also, playing flat footed works wonders on difficult fast songs such as Max300, MaxX Unlimited, Paranoia Survivor, Legend of Max, etc. You can get more steps done without spending too much energy, and people who have played these songs know that you need a lot of energy to get through them.

In short, people play flat-footed for the following reasons:

1. It conserves energy and minimizes step distance, and thus...

2. Makes it easier to get through hard/fast songs.

3. Increases percentage of Perfect/Marvelous attacking and increases overall scores.

Not everyone plays to lose weight... it's just a bonus that comes with the already great game.

By the way some of you might question my credibility... so I'll clear that up, too. I started playing DDR in 2002 with the motivation to lose weight as well. I got better fairly quickly because of my musical background (concert/marching band).

During the time I went all out, I'd probably twice a week playing for 3-5 hours at the arcade because I broke 2 home dance pads. I went from Light to Standard in a couple of days and a couple weeks later I was onto Heavy songs. I loved setting new song goals to break through and that's what kept me going. At the arcades I made a few friends and people knew who I was. I'm reluctant to admit, but I loved the attention I got when I'd get through difficult songs that left me breathless. I posted frequently on DDRFreak.com to share goals and stories, as well as watch videos to spice up my style.

I'm not as hardcore as I used to be since I stopped in 2004, but I still play every now and then. When I finished, I was more of a PA'er as opposed to a freestyler. I took on a minimalistic flat footed style, but with the songs I played... I still think I burned a lot of calories. During the time I played I lost one pant size and gained a lot of stamina. Now... I'm thinking of coming back because I'm in desperate need to lose weight.


For those who read all the way through... thanks!

[xstatic]

There is a huuuuuuuuge difference between this 'flat foot' style and freestyle. And most of us play neither way. Some of us here are dedicated to no-bar as a purist way to play the game. And one in particular can pass all your said flat-footed songs no-bar and I give him such high credit for that. Most of us play regular with the bar and use of speed mods. Some using mini.

And if you happened to look in our accomplishments thread we have many extremely talented players here. One who quad-stars everything and drives me nuts... And several who compete with PA and do extremely well! They're not playing flat-footed. The game doesn't require it.

I actually had the chance to see someone do this the other day and they looked ridiculous. The game doesn't even look like fun anymore. Might as well go play stepmania on your keyboard. And by the way... if the game is meant for one to advance to the point of playing flat foot style than what of people like me who have small feet and my feet can not span the corners of two arrows? 99% of the time I can't get that four arrow jump in with my feet. The distance just isn't there. Gotta use my hands. And I'll bet I look 10 times more badass when I play using hands and feet than someone does just spreading the gap with their toes.

PS - just because we're a small community does not mean that we don't know the same things that those on ITGfreak know.

[coastalmixx]

I never said flat foot and freestyle are the same... unless you're just making that statement.

I'm not very familiar with ITG... I've only played it a few times before they took it out of my school. My post was completely based off of DDR experience.

I had the impression that you guys didn't know what PA was because the flat foot style question was raised. Maybe there are really talented people in here who don't play flat footed... but you shouldn't assume that flat footed players are cheating just because they play differently. It's simply a style of play that works for some and not for others.

I also never said that flat foot was the way the game was meant to be played. I read through my post again and it seems the statement "the game was meant to be played flat footed" is just an implication. If the game was meant to be played flat footed, then the arrows would be smaller and there wouldn't be much of a space at the center of all 4 arrows. If you go by the game itself... it suggests that the game was meant to be played by putting your feet back at the center of each step.

Then again... I think the developers did this because it's easier to make an AI that can play every song in the same manner (moving back to the center) than separate AI for every song (which has individual step sequences for all songs without moving back to the center).

What I did forget to mention, however, is that people aren't restricted to Freestyle and PA... I meant to say that those are just the two popular styles of playing. You aren't one or the other unless you define yourself as such. In the end, we're all players.

[abrannan]

Hi! Welcome to GetUpMove! Come on in, make yourself comfortable, and have a look around. I think you'll find that we are a bit different from your "typical" DDR board. We tend to have less of a focus on "uber" scores, and concern ourselves more with the use of the game for better physical health. That's not to say that we don't or can't play the difficult songs, or are unfamiliar with the trappings of "tournament" level play. In fact, many of our players have perfomed quite well in PA scored tournaments. It just doesn't happen to be our focus. Like I said, different than your "typical" board.

We try to be a welcoming group overall, though like all communities, we do have things that rub us the wrong way. We'll try to let you know if boundaries get crossed, but sometimes responses can be a bit coarse. We try to avoid it, but we are, after all, only human. All I really ask is that you try not to judge an entire board from one person, or one person from a single post. We'll try to do the same.

But again, Welcome to the boards! I hope to see more of you around here!



As an aside, I think that playing "flat foot" with tap shoes could make for quite a freestyle routine, if people actually played freestyle anymore...

[xstatic]

abrannan said:

All I really ask is that you try not to judge an entire board from one person

Omg Andrew! MEAN!

Yes the post rubbed me the wrong way. IMO the person kinda stepped in and talked down to us as if we were the kinder gardeners of ddr and I got pissy. At least I try to protect the integrity of this board and its members.

I'll back off then.

[abrannan]

I'm sorry, Anne, but my post wasn't directed at you or your posts in any way, shape or form. It was directed at coastalmixx's assumptions about the level of DDR knowledge on these boards based upon this one thread. You should have seen the version of my post that was up before I went back and edited it. It was far more bitter and biting.

For the record, I think your response to coastalmixx was well within the boundaries of what's appropriate. No need to back off at all.

[coastalmixx]

I suppose I sounded a bit condescending, but I felt that the overall outlook on flat-footed play was completely one-sided. It seemed to me that anything different than what everyone's used to seeing is completely wrong.

Personally... I took up playing flat footed so I could get in more harder/faster songs into my DDR session and intensify the workout.

Btw, I've never seen anyone press two arrows at the same time with just one foot. I haven't even tried it myself... you'd probably clown shoes to pull that off.

[xstatic]

coastalmixx said:

Btw, I've never seen anyone press two arrows at the same time with just one foot. I haven't even tried it myself... you'd probably clown shoes to pull that off.

But....that's what flat foot is...as we've been discussing.

Cover two arrows with one foot and two arrows with another.

And people do it all the time while playing ITG.